Dan: Welcome all the lawyers and generally
the Avvo audience to Scorpion's three-part strategy
to expanding your online presence webinar.
My name is Dan Lear, and I'm the director
of industry relations here at Avvo.
And we're really pleased to have you joining us today.
Presenting today is Brian Blades,
Senior Vice President of Sales at Scorpion.
Since the company's inception 17 years ago
Brian has played a pivotal role
in helping establish business relationships
and ensure that client projects are set up for success.
Brian spearheads the sales department
and he provides an in-depth knowledge of what law firms need
to implement their marketing strategies
to command an online presence
that rules out their competition.
He's a frequent guest and faculty speaker
at legal organization seminars nationwide,
and he's here with us today to share
some of the most effective strategies
that Scorpion uses to help its clients succeed.
Brian: Thanks Dan, appreciate that and welcome everyone.
For everyone who's joining us here at this moment
and for those that will likely hear this a bit later
in recorded sessions.
We apologize for the technical hangups.
We had a really (voice muffled) webinar software system
wasn't really working as planned.
So if you're joining us we really are appreciative of that.
So we really are gonna dive into
quite a bit of details here today
in terms of what we here at Scorpion feel to be
really some of the most effective strategies online
in terms of expanding your presence,
and we're gonna kind of detail that
into really a three-part strategy.
So for starters here,
let's sort of get into I'd say step one,
which would really be today's agenda.
And we're gonna cover everything
from consumer behavior, interaction online
in terms of devices and we'll sort of start getting into
how that behavior kind of transitions over
into decision making and kind of the time and the scope
of our attention online with that decision making.
Then we'll start getting into that three-part
kind of strategy that we're seeing so much today.
And then towards the end here we'll get into some thoughts
and some takeaways and then we'll
likely field some questions.
Dan will be included in that when we get some Q and A.
Of course, we've got a chat box available there.
If you've got any kind of thoughts as we move along here
in the process go ahead and get your questions in there.
Dan will go ahead and field them
and make sure we kind of bring them to my attention
and pose them towards the end here,
and we'll try to be as organized as possible in the process.
So, let's kind of move along and dive right into it.
As you can imagine as you're seeing here,
seeing that the photo here in front of you,
this is probably resonating with you
and perhaps a lot of the family that uses devices,
but we are really living in this very unique digital world
where we are so connected to our devices
and we're connected at all points of the time
of our use of them.
They're connected to our hip,
we're at work, behind the computer, we're on the go,
and so we've got this really kind of changing dynamic
where an audience,
our ideal type of perspective clients
who we're trying to attract,
they are also connected to the web in ways
that they hadn't been in the past.
And so we're having, as advertisers right now,
trying to think of our interaction with these people
in different ways than we had in the past.
So a very traditional type of method
might have been somebody in a decision kind of making mode
might in kind of confronting that decision
in a one off type of experience.
Getting behind their computer, the desktop in most cases
in years past and really doing
their research in one sitting.
Today this is happening over what are oft times referred to
as micro moments.
These moments throughout the days, weeks,
and this kind of the scope and scale
of our interaction with information online
is changing how advertisers
now need to interact with our consumers.
So this is something to kind of keep in mind
as we move along in the process.
Now one of the things I do wanna bring
to everyone's attention here as we sort of think about
the mindset of a consumer is also how internet strategies
have changed because search engines like Google
have dramatically changed.
Now one of the things we're seeing here
is Google did make a pretty significant change
in recent years as it related to the location of a user.
And this is just one example
of one of those dramatic changes.
So where we are sitting you can kind of even think of it
in the context of where you are right at this moment.
Where you are sitting, Google and Facebook
and a lot of online properties are recognizing
your geographic location and really curating
the experience you are gonna be having
with those devices and certainly the type of message
they're gonna be sending you,
content you're gonna be getting based on where you're at.
So being connected at all times
doesn't necessarily mean just where you are,
the time of the day, day of the week,
but it also means where you're at physically
and the device you're using.
So kind of keep that in mind as we move along here as well.
Now one of the things that,
certainly as I did a great webinar
with our Google rep a few weeks back,
was really how people's attentions
have changed over the years now.
So, I think one of the unique things that we have now
with the web is that we have so much more reach.
And reach simply means that we can reach people
in ways that were never really possible before.
We have social media, we have search engines,
we have blogs, we have things like webinars here.
We have reputation websites.
Certainly Avvo plays a pretty significant role
in that as well,
and we're all over the web.
So our reach is pretty detailed.
We're very in depth in our reach.
But our decisions and our attention span is quite short.
So we become so adept at our decision making
right now online, whether it's our mobile phones
or our desktops or laptops, everywhere in between,
we are making decisions faster and faster,
but we're making them over a broader period of time
and we're doing them over a lot of
different moments in the process.
So, again, kind of something to keep in mind
as we look at kind of these strategies
and how that plays a role in our decisions in a way.
So one thing that Scorpion does here quite a bit
is we interact with Google.
Scorpion is what is called a Google premier partner.
We work with Google at really one of
the highest levels of business relationship.
And one of the things that they've really given us,
in terms of a great insight into best practices,
is what they consider their three R's.
So we're gonna break this down
and try to be as detailed as possible.
But it's really called getting in front of
the Right Person at the Right Time with the Right Message.
So let's be detailed of what that means.
So the Right Person, so that Right Person is that individual
that has the type of case that you're interested in.
It also could mean a demographic.
So this type of individual, where they live,
perhaps things like median income and household income
can play a role into hey,
I'm looking for this caliber of client.
Geographically it could play a role in were they're at,
the language they speak, the community that they're in.
So keep in mind,
the Right Person targeting is a big part of this.
And so that first R of the Right Person
is the first thing we think of.
The next thing we think of here is the Right Time,
and it's not just time,
but it's also the place, the location.
So moment in time and then location
where I'm actually physically.
And this location could be in a lot of different areas.
Keep in mind we've got where we live, where we work,
where we're on the go, a friend's house, Starbucks.
You're all over the place.
We've really got a very mobile audience
in ways we've never seen before because of our devices.
And the last part, and this is really where I think
a lot of marketing companies
have really kind of missed the mark,
and I feel that we're really kind of starting
to turn the corner there is with messaging.
Everyone's always been talking about
how do we get better placement in a search engine?
How do we get more exposure?
And while those are all very important things,
we don't wanna dismiss the messaging,
because when the consumer comes to your property,
your website, your blog, your social media site,
your Avvo profile, anywhere in between,
they need to be presented with the reasons why
you might be a good fit for their case.
So, let's not neglect that.
The Right Message.
What is the compelling reason why you're the person to call
before anyone else?
Because as we know right now the decision to move on
and find somebody else who might be the better fit
is just a click away and that's where we get into this
kind of seconds in between.
So the three R's here,
if we kind of use that as a kind of a place to begin here
in terms of best practices, it's a good start.
So let's kind of transition this
into more search visibility.
Search engines, after all,
are about 92% of the audience online
who are searching for services right now.
So, search visibility, how does that look like?
I think we're all very familiar with this,
but we'll look at it together in a practical context.
This is obviously a Google search result.
We've done a search for auto accident lawyer.
Many of you are familiar with the results
that you are oftentimes going to see with that.
Ads are on top, four of them.
You've got local positions in the middle
and then you've got organic positions down below that.
There's always some conversation about
where is, what does it mean to be getting maximum exposure?
How do I believe that a position in one place or another
in a search result is gonna be better than another?
So let's break that down.
Let's first start at the advertisements.
For all intents and purposes,
these positions are getting first look.
Statistically speaking, when a consumer is what's called,
Google calls this high commercial intent.
This is an individual who's in buying mode.
I'm not researching, I'm looking for my attorney,
much like the search result here indicates,
high commercial intent auto accident lawyer, very specific.
So these individuals who are advertising here,
these firms who want that top position,
they're getting first look here.
Now one of the key statistics to kinda keep in mind
as we identify position on a page
is that 70% of consumers right now,
this is a statistic right out of Google's own playbook,
70% of consumers hire the first attorney they speak with.
That's a pretty powerful number.
And so when you put that in the context
of being the first one to get that call to your office,
that's really important here.
And that's why a lot of these firms
are going to go to Google directly
and say, hey, I really wanna be up there first,
and those four advertisers today are a coveted spot,
more so even on a mobile device
where they monopolize pretty much the entire page
before you have to scroll down.
Now the other results down the page,
the local map positions.
This is the one that I think confounds a lot of people,
a lot of questions about how these arise.
The larger basis for how those results are delivered
are based on proximity to a user.
So again, kind of reverting back to what
I had mentioned earlier about my location,
where I'm at at the point that I do my search,
literally feet on the ground where I do the search,
I have done multiple tests where
I can do a search in one location,
walk two blocks in any direction,
and get completely different results
within those map sections,
and that's just because I will now have
more geographically relevant results popping up near me
than I was just a moment ago.
So I think for a lot of people say,
I'm showing up at the maps.
That's wonderful for that one keyword
or in that one moment in time where that search
was taking place right at that moment,
but you might be surprised to see how diverse
that result will be as you move around geographically.
And of course, reviews are a part of that result as well.
Google's own reviews as well as kind of the collaboration
of other providers that aggregate results
will be provided in that star rating that Google has.
And everything below that is the organic results.
So a lot of opportunities for consumers
to be able to see you.
This is just kind of an idea about
how all that gets put together.
So let's kind of move along here.
This is really kind of a fascinating part,
it's one I am constantly kind of thinking about,
and Scorpion certainly does as well
is where consumers' thoughts are.
And these are called, in Google's context,
they call these micro moments.
Google did a fascinating study about in 2005
called the Zero Moment of Truth,
and I'd love to get into the details of that study
and how illuminating it was.
Really what it came down to was consumers' reach
and just how many properties they are doing online,
how many places they're visiting before ultimately
making a decision to hire somebody
is really changed.
And we see this in everyday life,
not just hiring attorneys.
We find that with the car dealerships,
for example, the average number of dealerships
a consumer will go to these days
is down to about 1.3 dealerships from about 5.8
just back in 2000.
And a lot of that's happened because consumers
have already made the decision on what car to buy,
where they're gonna go, who's got the best price,
the options they want, the color they want.
That decision was made far before
they stepped on the dealer's lot.
And a lot of that's happening with consumers
when they hire their attorney.
So this is why these micro moments,
when we talked about having a comprehensive solution
to be in front of your ideal client,
it doesn't just mean what's happening on your website,
it means across the entire web,
across all these different places people can be at,
a social media website, a reputation site like Avvo.
You've got the website, you've got blogs,
you've got competing websites,
you've got review websites.
A lot of things that people can
really kinda get their information from.
So, we'll kinda get into that a little bit here as well.
Here we go.
All right, so some statistics to kinda go with this.
We are finding that because these micro moments
are coming so many places you can
kinda read these statistics for yourself,
but see that people do spend
a lot of time in certain places,
but I think it's not just so much that they've got
their attention in all these different channels,
but it's also not every channel is created equal.
A great example could very well be reviews.
Reviews are a big part of how consumers make decisions
with anything, whether it's buying a product
or hiring an attorney,
they wanna find out what the experience is
of other people that have come before them
and interacting with that business.
So in (voice muffled) channel there we've got a review.
Somebody could very well have spoken to you
as a family member or a friend and offered you
a previous experience and essentially a personal review.
And that's likely to weigh much heavier for you
than somebody who might have read
an anonymous review online.
However, if you kinda keep in mind
that you may very well have one (voice muffled)
from a family member or friend,
but you may well go to Avvo and you might read
20 or 30 reviews from peers as well as our customers
in that firm and (voice muffled) compelling.
So, we can't (voices muffled)
whether it's social media like Facebook
or having great reviews on (voice muffled)
and it can't just be with Google,
it can't just be with Facebook,
it's got to be with Avvo, it's gotta be with Yelp,
it's gotta be everywhere a consumer might do a search
for your business name.
So go do that for yourself for example.
You can do a search for your own name, for example.
Your business name.
Go find out what comes up and experience it in the footsteps
of your potential client.
What might they see?
How might information be inferred to them?
How might they kind of experience this information
as they kind of go down the list?
So something to keep in mind here in terms of best practices
and we certainly endorse here as well.
Now let's get into this three-part strategy,
and I think a lot of this is dovetailing
from where we kind of began here earlier
in the conversation.
The first is, of course, boosting visibility.
92% of consumers being out on search engines
when they're finding things,
certainly is local service providers
are a part of that equation,
so boosting visibility in the web,
just through search or any online platform,
you gotta be there where people are searching.
And you've gotta be there in the ways that they're searching
and what they're searching for in very specific ways.
If you're a criminal defense attorney
but you specialize in DUI defense,
make sure that your presence has a strong emphasis
on DUI exposure.
If you're a personal injury attorney
and you're really focusing on auto accident claims,
make sure that you've got great visibility there.
So be pointed about your visibility in that sense.
How about expanding your online presence
to make sure that your digital campaigns
are more targeted, more relevant, and more actionable.
We'll target that as well.
And then optimizing that placement.
How do we make sure that your placement
is going to be everywhere your consumer is?
Your mobile devices, your desktops, your laptops,
and of course geographic relevancy
is gonna play a role there as well.
So step one, targeting.
Targeting is a big component here because,
again, as I mentioned earlier in the webinar here,
targeting is about making sure you reach your ideal clients.
I work with a lot of criminal defense attorneys,
as just a personal example.
A lot of the guys that I work with
are very intent on making sure they can get people
to their website and calling them
with the money to be able to afford their fees.
That's a challenge a lot of family law attorneys go after.
Certainly criminal attorneys will face.
And (voice muffled) people really need to be able to afford
certain fees depending on the caliber of your practice
and the value of that case.
So targeting is gonna play a role in this.
A lot of times we're gonna be focusing on
meeting income demographics.
Household income will play a role in making sure
we are targeting the right people
that can afford those fees.
That way we can weed out people
that just aren't gonna be a fit for us right outta the gate.
So capturing potential clients
at the moment they're searching
from the place that they're doing a search.
Time, day, place, location.
So keep that ideal user in mind
every time you put your plans together here.
Second thing, boosting visibility.
Okay, we can talk about all these
different third party channels,
but I'm gonna speak specifically
about search engines for the moment.
Paid search advertising here has been
one of the greatest improvements
in terms of online visibility
because we can be everywhere consumer searches.
Paid search advertising does things
an organic presence cannot.
Same thing with local placements.
It allows us to be at the very top of the list,
engaging people, and be the first one in line
to get that person clicking through the website.
It also means geographically
we can be everywhere our consumers can be located.
If they live downtown but
they work out in a separate county,
that can play a role in whether they see you
at certain points in the day.
Paid listings allow us to be able to get beyond that.
Local listings, of course, dominating your backyard
is a big thing to us and certainly,
I shouldn't say Scorpion, but Google themselves
really drives home.
There's a lot of data to support the fact
that consumers hire locally first.
We actually did a study with Google a few years back
and we found that the overwhelming majority of cases
retained by the firms that we studied
came from within about a five to 10 mile radius.
So local listings dominating.
Owning your backyard is step one, I think,
in any kinda plan.
And then of course, search engine optimization.
You wanna have a well-rounded plan.
You wanna make sure that people can find you,
not just in ads, not just local,
but when they do more long-tailed keyword searches,
when they're more complex
in their information gathering mode.
SEO is a great avenue for that type of presence.
So boosting online visibility,
that's certainly kind of a three step process
you can take with that one.
And then optimizing placement.
Optimizing placement here is
kind of rounding everything out.
Hyper-local targeting, location extensions.
This is certainly with ad placements.
A lot of people are calling on mobile devices
more than ever at this point.
So with location extensions and call extensions
we can connect with that individual immediately.
And that is really having a pretty profound impact right now
with connecting with that person immediately.
A lot of our firms recognize that they're the first one
that gets that call they're gonna get that case
pretty quickly and have a greater opportunity
to meet their numbers every month.
So optimizing your placement,
making sure that you guys are presenting
the right message at the right time with the right people.
So good stuff there.
Last thing, and I don't wanna undervalue this,
'cause this is so important.
And Scorpion is really, in my opinion,
a leader in this area and this is tracking reporting.
So there's a whole saying, best laid plans of mice and men
often go astray, and this couldn't be more true
of any kind of internet marketing strategy.
A lot of people have good intentions and good ideas
and kind of things get put into motion
with any kind of marketing plan.
But as things move along, changes happen.
And any kind of marketing strategy
has to actually have a practice.
You have to see how things
are gonna play out in the real world.
And to be able to make informed decisions
has to come from objective data,
real objective information.
So one of the things we do here at Scorpion
is we do call tracking.
And not just any kind of call tracking.
We do tracking that pinpoints
exactly where the user called from,
we know what form of advertising produced that phone call,
if it came from an ad, it came from an organic placement,
a local placement, Google, if it came from Yelp
or it came from Avvo, a lot of those channels
will know where that call came from.
So that way every month our marketing team
can look at this and say okay, wow,
we're really getting some great quality calls
form this geographic area,
or based on these types of inquiries we're really,
we're spending time that's not producing
the type of caliber or the types of cases we're looking for.
So that data is starting to really
kind of come into play here more than ever
as we look at making changes along the way.
So there's no such thing as set it and forget it
or putting your campaign on autopilot.
There's gotta be a constant conversation
with the people you're working with
to make changes and to stay ahead of the curve.
So one of the things here I'm constantly gonna drive home,
you're gonna hear it again as we do more webinars,
is tracking and reporting, making sure you have great data
to support your decision making.
And we do that here at Scorpion in droves.
And I know Avvo does quite as well.
You guys are tied to that just the same we are.
So let's kinda get down into really
where we're kind of evolving.
Really, marketing being
such a consumer behavior driven thing,
it really means that we've gotta be watching this,
we've gotta be adapting these channels.
You've gotta be ahead of the curve
as I mentioned a moment ago.
So if you're interested in what Scorpion
can do for you along the way
and perhaps just interested in kind of
how we develop these strategies,
how our clients are seeing success for them,
I definitely invite you to contact me personally.
You can go to scorpionlegal.com,
read a little more about who we are at Scorpion,
what we do, and we'll be happy to help
kind of walk you through what it is we do
and see if there could be a way to help you as well.
So, with that being said let's look at
our key takeaways today.
Today's decisions are being made in seconds.
So not only are they being made in seconds,
but they're being made in seconds across a very broad area.
So being everywhere our potential consumers
are gonna be located and how they're searching,
but also making sure we have compelling messages
when that decision is gonna be made.
Targeting perspective clients, being there.
With a right potential user at any turn.
Utilizing paid search, local listings, SEO,
making sure you have a comprehensive approach
to your advertising strategy.
No all eggs in one basket anymore.
Really trying to diversify.
And really taking advantage of local call extensions
and local extensions that we find with Google right now.
Those are pretty powerful and we're
seeing great conversions on that.
And so there's so much more I wanna
share with you guys in the future,
so stay tuned for future webinars.
For the next step we're just sort of
entertaining questions that we've got here
from those that Dan might have received
while we've been talking on the phone here,
so, Dan is there anything that we could
kind of dive into here?
Dan: Yeah, no, I haven't seen anything
come across the chat, Brian.
I've got a couple but I was just gonna encourage
any folks out there listening,
if you do have a question for Brian,
go ahead and share it in the chat window.
And provided that I can figure this out,
and Brian I may need you or your colleagues
to send these over to me in some other fashion,
maybe DM them to me in the event that I'm not getting 'em.
But if folks are listening out there
and do have questions, go ahead and share 'em with us,
and we can see if we can have Brian answer them.
In the meantime, Brian, I'll ask you,
you mind if I ask you a couple questions?
Brian: Absolutely.
Dan: So I know you talked some about SEO,
and it's a super complicated topic,
but I know I talk with a lot of lawyers
who wanna at least get started,
particularly solo and small firm attorneys who know,
they maybe get a website,
and maybe they're trying to figure out
what their next step is to improve their visibility.
And obviously one option is to hire someone like you,
and I'm sure that's a great opportunity,
but if you could give folks just like,
I don't know, a few quick takeaways
as far as how to build a good SEO presence.
Maybe if you're just getting started,
do you have any tips on that?
I think that might be helpful.
Brian: Absolutely, I think SEO is certainly changing,
and will continue to change over the years,
but one of the things that Google,
and we were always gonna follow
Google's best practices here,
is to really kind of speak to your consumer
directly when you're talking about SEO.
You shouldn't be building your website,
your optimization strategy around pleasing Google.
Keyword stuffing.
You're trying to just overload your website
with just
way more information than what would be pertinent
to an individual.
So speak to your audience.
Be specific about what it is you're trying to bring across
in terms of content.
Be connected, making sure that a lot of
your online profiles out there,
business directories, legal directories,
social media websites are gonna be consistent and accurate
in the information they present about your business.
Simple things like how your business is,
your business name is gonna be (voice muffled)
Bob Jones versus Bob Jones, attorney at law.
That simple thing can actually play a role
in how your website gets positioned.
So, good quality, organic, engaging content,
information that people would really want to read.
Nothing that's gonna be regurgitated.
Don't just rehash articles or content
that people are really gonna sit there
and not wanna be engaged with.
So search engines look at this quality
as something of what they would consider a signal
in their algorithms.
So speak to your consumer in very organic ways
when you're writing your content.
Make sure everything's consistent and accurate.
Those would be some really great starting points.
Dan: That's awesome, yeah, my takeaway
when folks ask me that question is
it all starts with the content.
That's the hardest thing to do
and it's usually the thing that takes the most time.
So once you have that, then it gets easier
to sort of use that content to give you
a broader visibility on the web.
Brian: Couldn't have said it better, absolutely.
Dan: Hadn't seen any other questions come through,
so maybe I'll ask you one more question,
see if any others come through,
and then maybe we can call it a day.
Brian: Absolutely.
Dan: So one other thing that I heard you mention
sort of in an offhand way, and again,
I'm sort of asking you questions
that circle around my areas of interest.
I'm a big fan of the question I'm about to ask you,
so apologize if I'm taking a bit of
a selfish point of privilege,
but you didn't talk to,
you talked about Facebook in a sideways way,
but not too much about social.
I'd love to hear your quick thoughts about
either organic or paid social
and marketing strategies for those for lawyers,
maybe how that works and how you folks at Scorpion
can help folks figure that out.
It's a great question, and it's such a,
it's a topic that I think almost deserves its own webinar,
if I'm gonna be as accurate as I can with explanation.
Social, of course, people spend more time on social
than they do any other place online right now.
So your audience is there, certainly.
But let's kind of compartmentalize
what it means to be there
when your audience is on social.
So there's a couple ways.
First is, of course, people who are following you on social.
If they're liking your page
and they're gonna see posts you present there.
The other avenue is, of course, advertising.
Now unfortunately, or fortunately,
depending on your point of view on the thing,
there have been changes to social.
Facebook, for example, made a pretty dramatic change
where they really started encouraging
and really developing results for,
really more peer-to-peer.
These are friends, family members,
people you are actually friends with on their page
to see those posts promoted at the top.
A lot of businesses have not seen
that same love from Facebook right now,
so you're not gonna be seeing that promoted
quite the way it used to.
So you can pay to boost your ads in that sense.
But keep in mind that a lot of times
when it comes to social,
a lot of people who are going to be
coming to your Facebook page
are people you have a preexisting relationship with.
You've already done business with them,
you know them, you like them.
You are already in some form of interaction.
So in our opinion that sort of differs from that consumer
who doesn't know who you are
but is looking for an attorney because
they've got a specific situation they need help with.
So if they're going to be engaging on social media,
certainly they could ask friends, family members online
about their opinion or pose a question on a post,
and hopefully they get some feedback that way.
But as a direct channel,
kind of a top of the funnel type of advertising method,
we don't find it in that context of searching,
in the search mode
or the research information gathering mode,
quite as effective as it would be
in an insulating sense,
meaning that you want to see future referrals.
You want to use them as a way
to boost your visibility among any kind of referral sources
or future business with that person
who might have already worked with you in the past.
So keeping kind of that social channel continually oiled
I think is a great thing for every business still.
But as a top of the funnel advertising strategy
it's not quite as effective because of some of the things
that I mentioned there.
Dan: That's great.
Yeah, that's great, that's awesome.
Not seeing any questions,
not hearing anything from the folks over at Scorpion
in the event that I'm missing anything.
I'm gonna tell you that we and mostly you succeeded
in communicating everything you wanted to
amazingly clearly, so well done.
And I was just gonna say, how can folks catch up with you
if they have additional questions.
Brian: Well here you go, so last slide.
You can reach me anytime.
That's my direct number on the page.
That's my email address.
I'm happy to consult with you
if you've got some additional questions,
just anything that might have popped up after the webinar.
But we look forward to speaking with you in the future,
and
obviously we're gonna be one of the platinum sponsors
at Lawyernomics coming up in the next week.
So we'll be there.
If you plan on attending, stop by our booth.
I'll be there as well with my team.
And we certainly look forward to seeing you
and we're very excited to be joining you guys, too, Dan.
Dan: Awesome, well that's a great shout out
for Lawyernomics and a great way to finish.
We're almost entirely sold out on Lawyernomics.
So folks are listening and want to attend,
we'd highly recommend that you do that quickly.
You can just go to lawyernomics.avvo.com
and that'll get, and then click on the conferences link
and you'll get there.
Thanks again for doing this, Brian.
And I think it was incredibly valuable
and I think our audience found it that way, too.
And we'll talk to you all next time.
Brian: We'll see you again, thanks again, Dan.
Bye bye. -: Bye.